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We Can Work It Out - Politics & Philosophy
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Ron Nasty
Posts: 10776
20 June 2020 - 10.11pm
2161

And that there is my argument, your vote should choose between what's on offer in this election, and not who might or might not feature in the next election.

All the talk for Biden's possible VP seems to be Kamala Harris. Where is she considered to be on the spectrum?

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Dark Overlord

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

Stay at home, protect your nation's health services, save lives, and do...
The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966

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Dark Overlord
Nowhere Land
Posts: 4309
21 June 2020 - 12.46am

2162

Fortunately for me, i live in a state that consistently votes blue, so i'll be voting for the candidate i like (probably Howie Hawkins of the Green Party) instead of the lesser of two evils, knowing that my choice is unlikely to affect the election results.

As for Kamala Harris, she appears to be somewhere around here on the political compass.

She's definitely better than Trump but some of her stances bother me, particularly her stances on Medicare for all, abortion*, and free speech.

1. Against the death penalty (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
2. Eliminate mandatory minimum sentences (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
3. Against private prisons (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
4. $15 minimum wage (liberal, progressive)
5. Reparations (authoritarian, progressive)
6. Fix student debt problem without making college free (compromise)
7. Abolish the electoral college (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
8. Gun control (liberal, progressive)
9. Strongly pro choice (liberal, progressive)
10. Against Medicare for all (libertarian, conservative)
11. Supports Obamacare (compromise)
12. Decriminalize undocumented immigration (compromise)
13. Against the wall (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
14. Legalize marijuana and expunge former convictions (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
15. Decriminalize other drugs for first offenders only (compromise)
16. Pro-LGBT+ (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
17. Bring the troops home (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
18. Progressive taxation (liberal, progressive)
19. Against free speech (authoritarian, conservative)
20. Supports Patriot Act (authoritarian, conservative)
Progressive: (13/20=65%)
1. Against the death penalty (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
2. Eliminate mandatory minimum sentences (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
3. Against private prisons (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
4. $15 minimum wage (liberal, progressive)
5. Reparations (authoritarian, progressive)
6. Abolish the electoral college (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
7. Gun control (liberal, progressive)
8. Strongly pro choice (liberal, progressive)
9. Against the wall (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
10. Legalize marijuana and expunge former convictions (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
11. Pro-LGBT+ (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
12. Bring the troops home (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
13. Progressive taxation (liberal, progressive)
Liberal: (12/20=60%)
1. Against the death penalty (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
2. Eliminate mandatory minimum sentences (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
3. Against private prisons (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
4. $15 minimum wage (liberal, progressive)
5. Abolish the electoral college (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
6. Gun control (liberal, progressive)
7. Strongly pro choice (liberal, progressive)
8. Against the wall (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
9. Legalize marijuana and expunge former convictions (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
10. Pro-LGBT+ (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
11. Bring the troops home (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
12. Progressive taxation (liberal, progressive)
Libertarian: (9/20=45%)
1. Against the death penalty (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
2. Eliminate mandatory minimum sentences (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
3. Against private prisons (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
4. Abolish the electoral college (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
5. Against Medicare for all (libertarian, conservative)
6. Against the wall (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
7. Legalize marijuana and expunge former convictions (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
8. Pro-LGBT+ (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
9. Bring the troops home (libertarian, liberal, progressive)
Centrist: (4/20=20%)
1. Fix student debt problem without making college free (compromise)
2. Supports Obamacare (compromise)
3. Decriminalize undocumented immigration (compromise)
4. Decriminalize other drugs for first offenders only (compromise)
Authoritarian: (3/20=15%)
1. Reparations (authoritarian, progressive)
2. Against free speech (authoritarian, conservative)
3. Supports Patriot Act (authoritarian, conservative)
Conservative: (3/20=15%)
1. Against Medicare for all (libertarian, conservative)
2. Against free speech (authoritarian, conservative)
3. Supports Patriot Act (authoritarian, conservative)

*I'm fine with a politician being pro-choice but she's a feminist strawwoman on the issue, supporting little to no regulation and wants it to be publicly funded. This means that if she got what she wanted, a woman who's 8 months pregnant with a healthy and fully developed baby can walk into her local Planned Parenthood and have an abortion, partially paid for with taxpayer money.

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QuarryMan
Posts: 3496
21 June 2020 - 6.48pm

2163

I think tactically the main reason for *not* voting Biden would be to effectively force the DNC to finally start recognising economic progressives as a voting block by showing them that they can't win without doing so. During my 'Bernie or Bust' phases, that was pretty much my opinion on the matter, but at the end of the day the immediate wellbeing of minority groups is more important. 

Kamala is... about as good as we could've hoped for. I have my issues with her, but she'll be a generally good addition to Biden's ticket and will help him pick up voters in areas where he might otherwise have struggled. 

There is no final victory, as there is no final defeat. There is just the same battle to be fought, over and over again. So toughen up, bloody toughen up.” - Tony Benn
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Dark Overlord
Nowhere Land
Posts: 4309
22 June 2020 - 11.08am

2164

QuarryMan said
I think tactically the main reason for *not* voting Biden would be to effectively force the DNC to finally start recognising economic progressives as a voting block by showing them that they can't win without doing so. During my 'Bernie or Bust' phases, that was pretty much my opinion on the matter, but at the end of the day the immediate wellbeing of minority groups is more important.

That's what i used to think as well. However, the DNC (as well as the more traditional Democrats) probably would've voted for Trump if Bernie won the primaries, just like in 2008 when a bunch of Hillary supporters (including senator Joe Lieberman) voted for Republican John McCain over Barack Obama.

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QuarryMan
Posts: 3496
24 June 2020 - 3.31pm

2165

The sensible side of my brain knows it probably won't happen, but I have this niggling suspicion that Biden is going to choose Condoleeza Rice as his VP that won't go away. I mean, weirder things have happened in this timeline, and it does seem like the sort of weird bipartisan move that Biden would do.

In other news, a great night for progressives in Democrat primary races, with AOC being overwhelmingly re-elected against a corporate backed challenger, and it's looking like Jamaal Bowman is going to oust establishment Dem Eliot Engel in New York's 16th congressional district. I'd been feeling pretty depressed about US politics since Bernie got thoroughly owned after his rivals joined forces against him, but I guess I forgot that the progressive movement was always about more than him, and that really it's probably a better idea to focus on getting in candidates down-ballot rather than expending so much energy on the big prize.

Anyways, the night did also lead to this absolutely glorious moment -

Screen-Shot-2020-06-24-at-21.30.38.pngImage Enlarger

There is no final victory, as there is no final defeat. There is just the same battle to be fought, over and over again. So toughen up, bloody toughen up.” - Tony Benn
2019 BB awards: Most-respectful-even-through-disagreements-Awesomest-signature.png
UK.jpg demsoc2.jpg bi-flag-1.jpg

Avatar courtesy of Beatlebug and Ms. Bj?rk Guemundsdóttir

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